Curse

Master Sword Keeper · Nov 21, 2009, 02:07 PM // 14:07

+1

Leave it as is, Up the skeletons. Fixed.

QueenofDeath · Nov 21, 2009, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebideedee

I'd love it if A-Net removed/changed the game so that SF/55'ing etc wasn't possible, the QQ threads would be hilarious

You and me both bud you and me both. The QQ threads would sound around the globe in every language except pig latin and pigmy.

)

I don't mind people trying to solo just remove all the gimmick builds that make them invulnerable and invincible. All these insane protective armor and protective spirit spells should be taken out of the game period. Just have HEALS and MENDS but remove all the for X amount of minutes you cannot be harmed bs spells and protective armor that can't be hit. Then it will be a fun game again.

)

Targren · Nov 21, 2009, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed

I want to do uw balanced and its nigh impossible in a reasonable time. Then she says not only will it be hard to do balanced you won't be able to use sf to do it, where does that leave us? GG.

You're delusional... There's never been, and never will be, effective "balanced" parties for elite areas. Before UWSC was Cryway, etc.., going all the way back to Holy Trinity.

"Elite" areas are about coordination in play AND builds. Going with what works BEST. If you want to play with "good enough", stick with EotN dungeons. Whatever replaces SF/UWSC, it will not be "balanced", mark me.

QueenofDeath · Nov 21, 2009, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Don't understand any other side to an issue except what their narrow minds can create
Don't care about what other people think, but believe that their opinion is above that and it doesn't matter.

Actually both of those fit you Rahja as you are belittling anyone elses desires or opinions about the game in place of your own. Attacking the issue doesn't help your cause it makes you look dictorial.

Now I can accept you want what you want in the game, but, I want what I want in the game also so there's no one correct answer here, but, what has to come down is compromise and Anet is doing that compromise now in the form of Nerfing SF and hopefully a whole bunch of the GIMMICK builds out there that solo farm. It won't stop farming but hopefully it will tone it down quite a bit where things can become comfortable for all types of plalyers not just the farmers.

Quote:

Whatever replaces SF/UWSC, it will not be "balanced", mark me.

As long as they keep nerfing whatever little gimmick build they make will be fine with me. Eventually there will be nothing left but simple builds that it will take a group of skilled balanced players to win in there and that is the way it should be.

Reformed · Nov 21, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

As long as they keep nerfing whatever little gimmick build they make will be fine with me. Eventually there will be nothing left but simple builds that it will take a group of skilled balanced players to win in there and that is the way it should be.

Ask me how I know you have never tried the "new" Servants of Grenth in HM. Without some form of gimmick invinci-tank holding the line it can't be beaten. There are simply too many foes and way way too much damage. Four Horsemen used to be the thing to fear because of the split but it pales in comparison to the buff they gave that quest. You can have all the skill and coordination in the world but if the builds aren't there then forget it. It's a nice thought, hearkening back to simpler GW days, but with the difficulty cranked like it is that's just not possible if you want to last more than 30 seconds. At the bare minimum GW reverts to it's lowest common denominator, tank and spank via the holy trinity with minor swaps. Wholly random "balanced" teams will just not cut it anymore.

zwei2stein · Nov 21, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Has it occured to any of you in opposition to Shadow Form that it may, in fact, have been changed to facilitate those that are still interested in GW1? I mean, without SF the way it is now, what percentage of current players would still be playing? I would guess low 30%s... just a guess, but it seems viable.

Is that really game where people only farm worth preserving?

Also, consider this:

When game runs out of content like GW, only reason to keep playing is OCDing achievements ... err, titles. This secondary 'content' however too only lasts so long. Adding easy-farm skills is highly counterproductive: 10k point titles get completed faster and 'grind' gets bypassed. What keep them playing then? More farms for rarer stuff? Which too is over faster with easy farm stuff.

So, why do you think those 70% really continue playing? Is it really only because they can amass pixel glory fast?

Or is it because they want to get X, and already spent long time getting there and do not quit as easily because of commitment falacy?

---

I mean whoever continues sfing is kinda hopelessly addicted and pretty much only way for him to quit is burn out hard.

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Have a look at the price of the chaos globes.

Do they require so many ectoplasm because it's easy to get? Nope, because it's easy to farm. Rare materials drop 'more' in HM when going solo. So solo farmers get them more, and that's why you see so many assassins with obsidian armor and chaos globes.
They don't spend time to get that, they get that because they don't have anything else to spend the ectos in!

BlackSephir · Nov 21, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokeDrop

Good thing you're not a dev then.

Because the farmers would get upset? Oh nooo, what a loss.
I guess since they're getting upset about almost every skill balance you can go one step further.

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Guild Wars is an everchanging game.
When skills change, you change builds and adapt. If you can't do that, then GW is not your game.
And if something becomes too difficult, they will probably tone it down a bit. (They did so already a couple of times)

I think it should be simple enough to understand.

Life Bringing · Nov 21, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Have a look at the price of the chaos globes.

Do they require so many ectoplasm because it's easy to get? Nope, because it's easy to farm. Rare materials drop 'more' in HM when going solo. So solo farmers get them more, and that's why you see so many assassins with obsidian armor and chaos globes.
They don't spend time to get that, they get that because they don't have anything else to spend the ectos in!

Ectos have the same drop rate in NM and HM m8. Also, doesn't easy to farm=easy to get? You're contradicting yourself.

Arduin · Nov 21, 2009, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRogue

Its gotten to the point now where i need all 10 classes just to play this game and its annoying as hell. At least with Ursan, if i wanted to play in an area my ranger wasnt wanted, id still get to play.

If you want to play the game, any profession goes. If you want to farm, be it solo or SC-ing elite areas, yes, then you'll need a wider assortment of professions.

w00t! · Nov 21, 2009, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Let people accumulate personal wealth all they want via solo farming, but don't "force" people into gimmick builds just to be able to get in a team in Elite areas.

Trub · Nov 21, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

Let people accumulate personal wealth all they want via solo farming, but don't "force" people into gimmick builds just to be able to get in a team in Elite areas.

Q F T.
There are new and very creative team builds developing since the UW change, but it still looks like SF farmers are being catered to....
I will hold my own opinions close until I see if the builds being tested are going to be stable enough for decent teams to run.
(There should NEVER be a 'GOD-MODE' in an on-line game)

P.S.: OMG Zebideedee, that pic is too cute!!

Lishy · Nov 21, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Guild Wars is an everchanging game.
When skills change, you change builds and adapt. If you can't do that, then GW is not your game.
And if something becomes too difficult, they will probably tone it down a bit. (They did so already a couple of times)

I think it should be simple enough to understand.

Exactly my thoughts,

Considering skill changing is a very long process in reality to implement, there must be a huge balance update planned.

DreamWind · Nov 21, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

ArenaNet apparently missed this when they were testing the update, but Shadow Form is not only still viable with Dhuum in the Underworld; it's actually still the most effective way to beat him.

Just thought I'd bring this to their attention.

I admit I have not played since the update, but if this statement is true it is one of the most hilarious things I've read on this forum that Anet has done. Thx Zahr you finally made a quality post.

Lord Sojar · Nov 21, 2009, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Of course, the majority of you are forgetting that the 55 monk has existed for... uh... 4 years + now? These same QQ threads existed for every variation of the 55 monk and still pop up from time to time...

I think I have a few good ideas for how to fix the SF problem, but they don't involve buffing Ursan (that is absolutely an insane idea...), nerfing SF into the ground (it's a fun skill, and should be a viable farming ability), or buffing other skills to come in line with SF. Simple world changes and a tweak to SF's description are all that is needed. We don't need to Smiter's Boon SF people, it is a PvE farming skill. The Guild Wars economy is balanced around a steady supply of ectoplasm, and if it suddenly lacks said supply... kiss your precious trading goodbye.

If any of you players are long standing enough to remember, ecto were at one time, 20k+ each. Do you really want that to happen again? I certainly don't, considering my ranger's FoW armor cost me like 5 million gold back then... no thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Exactly my thoughts,

Considering skill changing is a very long process in reality to implement, there must be a huge balance update planned.

NO. Again, you are failing to understand the primary issue... there are too many skills in Guild Wars to effectively balance all of them on a skill to skill synergy level (READ THAT AGAIN IF YOU DON'T GET IT!!). Once you understand that, it is only a short step to a full understanding of why there are no more Guild Wars 1 chapters, and Guild Wars 2 is on its way. You change one skill's description to "nerf" or adjust it, and it suddenly has this crazy synergy with another skill and becomes the new meta or FotM. It's a vicious cycle, and the only way to stop it is to balance very few skills at a time, looking at that skill and any skills that potentially have synergy with it, and making adjustments accordingly. If you can't do that, leave the skills alone.

QueenofDeath · Nov 21, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

If any of you players are long standing enough to remember, ecto were at one time, 20k+ each. Do you really want that to happen again?

Yes I do as that makes things I have for sale more valueable. When people can get ectos a dime a dozen it makes the majority of everything in the game pretty worthless.

They flooded the market with too much loot and now everyone is sitting around just wanting the high end stuff as they can easily afford the low end and middle end gear. There was a time I could get 100k for just a gold item of uncommon drop rate. Now I'm lucky if I can get 5k hell I make more farming feathers for the SF sins lol how ironic than I can farming equipment.

Sorry but I like a world where things have high value for a long time. With this game not having any evolving of gear too many people get to the end game gear too fast and then there is just nothing worth playing for except silly titles or minis.

Fril Estelin · Nov 21, 2009, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Is that really game where people only farm worth preserving?

If you were an Anet employee, part of the small Live Team, what would you say? "Scrap it so that we can show to the world how a game is properly played"?

P.S.: balanced UW clear tonight?

w00t! · Nov 21, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Of course, the majority of you are forgetting that the 55 monk has existed for... uh... 4 years + now? These same QQ threads existed for every variation of the 55 monk and still pop up from time to time...

You're confusing the desire to skill balance SF with solo farming builds. I have absolutely no problem with solo farming builds, as it doesn't detract from my ability to enjoy the game. SF does, and Ursan did. Any gimmick which reduces players to PvXwiki zombies detracts from my enjoyment of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

I think I have a few good ideas for how to fix the SF problem, but they don't involve buffing Ursan (that is absolutely an insane idea...), nerfing SF into the ground (it's a fun skill, and should be a viable farming ability), or buffing other skills to come in line with SF.

I absolutely agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

If any of you players are long standing enough to remember, ecto were at one time, 20k+ each. Do you really want that to happen again? I certainly don't, considering my ranger's FoW armor cost me like 5 million gold back then... no thanks.

Yes, and I also remember someone apologizing to me for winning a +28 staff wrapping auction of mine for only 8k! Easy access to ecto along with expert and superior salvage kits have caused a general deflation, which is either a good or a bad thing, depending on your perspective.

Ecto prices have stayed reasonably stable in terms of buying power. The only thing that has really been affected is FoW armor, which is now a dime a dozen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

It's a vicious cycle, and the only way to stop it is to balance very few skills at a time, looking at that skill and any skills that potentially have synergy with it, and making adjustments accordingly. If you can't do that, leave the skills alone.

Agreed

zwei2stein · Nov 21, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

If you were an Anet employee, part of the small Live Team, what would you say? "Scrap it so that we can show to the world how a game is properly played"?

P.S.: balanced UW clear tonight?

No, I would do something to improve situation, which they try to do with skeletons and whatnot

(definitelly on uw clear :-) )